4th armoured brigade

I'd like to construct the 4th armoured brigade at the time of the second Alamein batle. My search-fu is not strong these days and I am unable to find the exact composition of this brigade. I know which units were a part of the 4th, but I can't find what weapons (tanks, armoured cars...) they were using at the time. Anyone?

The “Mobile Division (Egypt)” was formed after the Munich crisis in 1938 and initially consisted of a light Armoured Brigade (the old Cairo Cavalry Brigade), a heavy Armoured and Pivot Group. This was renamed 7th Armoured Division (the original Desert Rats) in January 1940, the Light Armoured Brigade became 7th Armoured Brigade and Heavy Armoured Group becoming 4th Armoured Brigade. Although the Battle Grouping of the Brigade changed regularly throughout the war, by November 1940 it consisted of 7th Hussars, 2nd Royal Tank Regimant and 6th Royla Tank Regimant. Brigadier JAL Caunter DSO MC assumed command in January 1940. The Brigade played a full part in the early victories against the Italians in the Western Desert, including the capture of Sidi Barrani in December 1940 and the Battle of Beda Fomm in February 1941. Immediately prior to the Battle of El Alamein, the Brigade was re-configured as a light Armoured Brigade and continued in this role until the end of the campaign in North Africa. Following the operations from Tobruk to Tunis between May 1941 and May 1943, the Brigade reformed as an Armoured Brigade. Landing in Sicily on 10/11 July 1943 the Brigade was initially involved in the clearing of Syracuse and then advanced through Lentini, Catania, Messina, Taranto, playing a part in the Battle for the River Sangro and fighting along the Mozzagrongna Road. In December 1943, the Brigade was given orders to go to England for the first time in its history. Sailing from Naples, the Brigade arrived in February 1944. There followed a period of leave and re-epuipping before intensive training commenced for the invasion of mainland Europe. Landing in France on 7th June 1944, the Brigade was quickly involved in the fierce fighting in the Bocage, around Caen and the River Odon. Action followed around Falaise and then Antwerp and the area west of the River Scheldt. 1944 ended with the Brigade fighting hard in Holland around Tilburg and the River Maas.
The Brigade, under command of 15 Scottish Division (12 Corps) was heavily involved in the Rhine Crossings in March 1945, the crossing of 44 Royal Tank Regiment being immortalized in the painting by Terrrence Cuneo. The Brigade then advanced through Rheine, Hopsten, Weeze, Uffeln, Diepholz, Asendorf. Final operations were conducted on the River Aller and north to Bremen. The Brigae ended the war at Bergedorf, near Hamburg.
Field Marshall Lord Carver finishes his short history of 4th Armoured Brigade, ‘So for 4th Armoured Brigade finished five years of fighting during which we had seldom been out of the line. Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Sicily, Italy, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany had been our battlefields. The sign of the Black Desert Rat will, we know, be remembered by many people of many lands; by our enemies we hope with respect; by our friends we trust with gratitude and affection, as we remember them.’

In 1948 4th Armoured Brigade was disbanded but was reformed in 1981 in Munster, West Germany.
4th Armoured Brigade took part in Operation Granby 1990-1991, as part of 1st (UK) Armoured Division. The Brigade deployed to Saudi Arabia in December 1990 and, following a period of intensive training from December 1990 to February 1991, played a full part in the operations of the Division. Units under command of the Brigade were:

1st Battalion The Royal Scots
3rd Battalion The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers

The Headquarters deployed to Bosnia in November 1993 as Headquarters BRITFOR. In February 1994, following the Peace co-ord between the Bosnian Croats and Muslims, the Headquarters also formed the basis of UN Headquarters Sector South West, with two British Battalions (1 Coldstream Gaurds and 1 Duke of Wellingtons Regiment), one Canadian, one Malaysian and one Spanish Battalion under command. The Headquarters was, for many years in Munster but moved to Osnabruck in January 1993, when 12th Armoured Brigade withdrew from the Army’s Order of Battle . The Brigade and Osnabruck Garrison now has a dependency which covers Osnabruck, Munster and Nienburg.
More recently 4th Armoured Brigade deployed to Kosovo in August 1999 on Operation Agricola. Aspects of the Brigade also deployed to the Gulf again on Operation Telic 1 which saw the end of President Saddam Husseins regime.

Units That Served With The 4th Armoured Brigade

Regiments

Royal Scots Greys

3rd County of London Yeomanry (The Sharpshooters) later 3rd/4th CLY

44th Royal Tank Regiment

46th Royal Tank Regiment

50th Royal Tank Regiment

The Royal Dragoons

UNITS OF THE BRIGADE

This list does not include all units which have ever served in the brigade but gives the official composition of the brigade at different times, excluding Headquarters 4th Armoured Brigade and 4th Armoured Brigade Signals.
January to May 1940
1st Royal Tank Regiment
6th Royal Tank Regiment

May to October 1940
7th Hussars
6th Royal Tank Regiment

November 1940 to February 1941
7th Hussars
2nd Royal Tank Regiment
6th Royal Tank Regiment

May to June 1941
4th Royal Tank Regiment
7th Royal Tank Regiment

August 1941 to February 1942
2nd Royal Horse Artillery
2nd Bn The Scots Guards
8th Hussars
3rd Royal Tank Regiment
5th Royal Tank Regiment
5 Company, Royal Army Service Corps

April 1942 to July 1942
1st Royal Horse Artillery
8th Hussars
3rd Royal Tank, Regiment
5th Royal Tank Regiment
1st Battalion King's Royal Rifle Corps
5 Company R.A.S.C.

August 1942 to May 1943
The composition of 4th Light Armoured Brigade was constantly changing but the following were generally part of it.
3rd Royal Horse Artillery
The Kings' Dragoon Guards
The Royal Dragoons
The Royal Scots Greys
4/8th Hussars
11th Hussars
12th Royal Lancers
1st Bn King's Royal Rifle Corps (up to January 1943)
2nd Bn King's Royal Rifle Corps (after January 1943)
5 Company R.A.S.C.
14th Light Field Ambulance R.A.M.C.

July to August 1943. Sicily.
'A' Squadron The Royal Dragoons
3rd County of London Yeomanry (Sharpshooters)
44th Royal Tank Regiment
2nd Bn King's Royal Rifle Corps
5 Company R.A.S.C.
14th Light Field Ambulance
318 Armoured Brigade Workshops R.E.M.E.

August 1943 to January 1944
As above with addition of
46th Royal Tank Regiment
50th Royal Tank Regiment
98th Field Regiment Royal Artillery (Surrey and Sussex Yeomanry)

February 1944 to May 1945
4th Royal Horse Artillery (joined June 1944)
The Royal Scots Greys
3rd County of London Yeomanry (Sharpshooters) (became 3/4th in July 1944)
44th Royal Tank Regiment
2nd Bn King's Royal Rifle Corps
5 Company R.A.S.C
14th Light Field Ambulance
4th Armoured Brigade Workshops (originally 318)
4th Armoured Brigade Ordnance Field Park
271 Forward Delivery Squadron R.A.C.

matilda 2, mk6 light tank, a9, a10, a13, valentine, crusader, stuart, grant sherman, sherman firefly, cromwell, challenger, chaffee en comet

Armoured cars

Rolls-Royce, morres, harmon-harrington, humber,daimler

1942

Humber Quad AA Car, Staghound Dual 0.5" AA Car.

Infantry Battalions

The British Infantry equipment changed considerable during the war, from a rifle based organisation with a few Light Machine Guns, with a Anti-tank Rifle, plus Heavy Machine Gun and Mortar support from Battalion, to a unit that had a considerable number of automatic weapons and a potent ant-tank capability.

The basic infantry weapon throughout the war was the Lee-Enfield Rifle, with automatic fire being provided by the Bren LMG, or even the older Lewis Gun, plus sub-machine guns in the shape of the US Thompson and then the Sten guns. To provide local artillery support each platoon was also armed with a 2" Mortar.

Heavier support was provided by the Vickers Machine gun, the Browning 0.5 inch Machine Gun and 3" Mortar, detached from the main Battalion and later in the war 4.2" Mortars from the Independent MG Company.

At the start of the war anti-tank support was provided by the Boys A/T Rifle, but by the end of the war the P.I.A.T. (Projector Infantry Anti-Tank) was carried within each platoon enabling the infantryman to even take on the mighty Tiger tank.

The humble infantryman, may have fought on foot, but the majority were carried by lorry or carrier between engagements. Later on armoured Half Tracks, such as the M3 or M5 were used to provide some protection to small arms fire and to give cross country capability in order to follow the tanks. Later the 'Kangaroo' Armoured Carrier, made from converted tanks was used to increase the protection of the infantry going into battle. The Half Track was used primarily by the infantry in Armoured Divisions, with the infantry also using the ubiquitous Bren Gun Carrier.

Artillery Regiments, (including Anti-Tank, Tank Destroyers and Anti-Aircraft)

At the start of the war the majority of artillery units were equipped with the 18 pdr Field Gun, of World War l vintage, but converted to towing by a tractor unit. The other Field gun in service, which then became the standard weapon of the Royal Horse Artillery and Field Artillery units was the versatile 25 pdr Howitzer. This excellent piece of ordinance was even capable of anti tank fire. During the war a number of Tractor units were used, but by far the most widely used was the "Quad", plus a limber, for the Field Artillery, while the Morris CDSW 6X4 Tractor was used for the Light Anti-Aircraft guns.

As the war progressed and became more mechanised, there was a clear a need for the artillery support to become mechanised too. This was achieved initially by the "Bishop" Self Propelled Gun (SPG) - equipped with a 25 pdr - and latter the "Sexton" SPG (again equipped with a 25 pdr). Also some 105mm US manufactured "Priests" were deployed within the SP Artillery Regiments.

At the start of the war the heaviest anti-tank weapon available was the 2 pdr Anti-Tank gun, which had little effect against some of the heavier German tanks, but these were in short supply so the Bofors Model 1936 Anti-Tank gun was also used in North Africa in the early stages of the war, there. By 1941 this was being replaced by the better 6 pdr Anti-Tank gun, which saw service through to the end of the war. This was deployed within both the infantry Battalions and Anti-tank Regiments. Normally the Anti-Tank guns were towed by the normal lorries, but to make the guns more mobile they were carried "Portee" on the back of the vehicles, ready for action. This make them easier to move, but more susceptible to enemy fire. As the war progressed the lighter anti-tank guns were towed by Bren Gun and Loyd Carriers.

Towards the end of the North African campaign and during the invasion of Europe the 17 pdr Anti-Tank gun was available any could knock out a Tiger tank at about a 1000 yards. This was the gun fitted to the Sherman Firefly and Challenger tanks and Achilles/Wolverine Tank Destroyers.

From 1944 German mortars we becoming a significant threat and so Counter Mortar Batteries were formed using sound detection equipment to help locate them ready for counter bombardment.


Engineers and Other units

In this section I hope to explain what equipment was used by the Royal Engineer and Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineer units attached to the Division, along with that used by Independent Machine Gun Companies which served. The former includes mine clearing and the famous Bailey Bridge. Additionally, the equipment used by the various Radio Operators and Royal Corps of Signals and main Ambulance of the Royal Army Medical Corps is also shown.



Ik hoop dat dit is wat je zoekt.



Greetz ice

T(h)anks!

So far I found that:

The Kings' Dragoon Guards used
Marmon-Harrington Armoured Cars, armed with either a Boys Anti-Tank Rifle (.5'') or a Bren Gun and A.E.C Armoured Cars with 2-pdr A/T Gun and a 7.92mm. Machine Gun.

The 4/8th Hussars had mainly Honey Stuarts and Grants

The 3rd Royal Horse Artillery naturally used 25 punders.

Thanks Guy. You made it a lot easier for me.

If your looking for more info about the tanks used: http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/ a great site for all threadheads...